User:Karina/draft project proposal

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preparation for SESSION THREE: 19 OCT

what do you want to make?

(what / how?)
I'd like to create a large-scale digital interactive installation which playfully points out the tension between documentation and experience, to show that we are unable to completely capture an experience. The focus will be on dance, yet this does not necessarily mean that the audience are the ones dancing. They can also be in control of the performance (think Sims). The activities will be based on experiments conducted for my thesis. These experiments are based on psychological theory regarding topics such as: memory; flow; spacial awareness; notation; and unspoken-communication in dance. The experiments are conducted with both participants who dance, and those who do not - whether because they enjoy it or not. Although the focus is on social dance experience, most experiments do not aim for the participants to dance. (The experiments are the methodology / correlation between thesis and graduation project. There is no strict rule whether I take a theory and create an experiment out of it, or create an experiment and find appropriate theory to back it up. One experiment leads to another as topics are related).
The content of this participatory installation will fall into either one of the two categories:

  1. showing all (aiming for 6) conducted experiments
  2. showing one of the conducted experiment in depth


The installation itself will compose of (touch) screens, beamers, speakers, (kinect, IR sensor, motion sensors, VR, binaural recordings) to create a sense of mixed reality.
Interaction within the piece is crucial to emphasise the interaction of sharing an experience. The interaction can be in either one of the following:

  • between computer and audience
  • audience and performer
  • audience members themselves

(why?)

Project proposal visuals.jpg

keywords for graduation project

  • participatory
  • playful
  • thought provoking
  • eye-opening (not serious, political..)
  • experience
  • research / experiments shown in experience
  • transpose / translate
  • mixed reality (mixable realities)
  • dipping in / out of different realities



how do you plan to make it?

what is your timetable?

  • 22-10-17 // Plan out experiments
  • 05-11-17 // Conduct experiments on participants
  • 24-11-17 // Graduation Proposal Deadline
  • Make corrections to any mistakes found in experiment explanations
  • Test experiments again if needed
  • 21-12-17 // Finish conducting all experiments


  • Plan how to visualise outcome of experiments (graphics)
  • Decide whether will choose all, some or just one experiment to exhibit in installation
  • Make concrete sketches of prototype of installation
  • Make concrete list of materials needed for installation
  • Start looking for materials for installation
  • Test visual (graphics) outcome of experiments on participants
  • Fix anything that may have not been clear from visuals
  • Finish visualising outcome of experiments


  • 08-03-18 // Make prototype of installation
  • 09-04-18 // Start building installation
  • 25-06-18 // Finish building installation



why do you want to make it?

  • Looking from a dance perspective, I'd like to find to what extent is it possible to capture the moment / the experience while social dancing
  • Looking at a broader sense, are we getting closer to capturing experiences? What tools will help us do that? Will we ever manage? What may happen once we achieve that? Will that be a simulation?


Dance is a non-verbal language passed down from person to person. If it isn’t recorded, it will be lost. Swing almost died out, until it was reintroduced by Frankie Manning and Norma Miller in the 1990s. Choreology, graphical or written dance notation, is a method for conservation, yet there are many versions. They range from overly simplistic footstep maps which only communicate footwork, to Lebanotation which represents many aspects such as direction, body part movement, duration and dynamics of the movement, yet is difficult to read and requires time to learn do decode the language. Conserving dance with the use of video is fine if it’s for watching purposes only, yet once it is used for teaching or recreation, it becomes too fast and/or time consuming to constantly rewind small sections.

who can help you and how?

who how
Becky Tomas, Luciën de Bruin & Zoë Robaey teachers from Swing in Rhythm (Lindy Hop) dance school could share some insight into their methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Leila Bergen teacher from van der Meuelen Wesselling (Ballroom & Latin) dance school could share some insight into her methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Martin Wedby & Anita Kankimäki have been taught swing by Frankie Manning and Norma Miller, could possibly tell me what their experience was, what Frankie and Norma told them was important
Filip Kostanecki dancer at Swing in Rhythm dance school that annotates and analyses the structure of dance classes
Karsten Steehouwer psychologist and dancer at Swing in Rhythm dance school that may have an insight in dance from a psychological perspective
students / participants at Swing in Rhythm dance school listen to their experience with dance, learning how to dance, memory techniques and what tools they may be missing to make it easier
students / participants at van der Meuelen Wesselling dance school what are they happy with? what are they missing? what techniques or tools do they use to memorise and practise? what would make learning easier?
Varinia Canto Vila Dancer and artist - look up bio here. Did workshop with her on 30th May 2017 which looked at movement, how the body is a medium that could reinforce the law
Adam Brozowski Swing dancer, had the honor to learn directly from legends like Frankie Manning, Norma Miller, Jean Veloz, and Dawn Hampton. Signed up for workshop class with him on 11th November 2017
Het Danspaleis organisation which organises swing dance events at elderly homes and hospitals for the elderly / patients to feel young again may share insight in their aim, why they do it, how do they know its successful
dr Mol & dr Donselaar neurologists at Maasstad Hospital
Esther van der Heiden assistant / nurse at Maasstad Hospital who, among other things, organises events for patients, has a wide network that might help me. She organised Dance for Health workshop in 2016 for patients with MS, which will help with research regarding dance with muscle and memory difficulties (http://danceforhealth.nl)
therapists find out about dance as a therapeutical technique - for trauma?
Bavo Europoort psychiatry specialists who conduct memory tests


relation to previous practice
Special Issue 02: Pushing the Score

  • look into graphical notation and scores
  • John Cage, Merce Cunningham, Rudolf Laban and Rudolf Benesh
  • Levine's Time Perception - clock time v.s. event time (how that relates to Wiener's Newtonian v.s. Bergsonian Time)
  • structure v.s. fluidity: how does that translate to dance?


notes from Karina/self-directed/Capturing Memories In Time

  • how to capture memories?
  • dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory, structure of memory / neuroscience and muscle memory
  • Psychology of dance


previous written piece: Time Perception in Dance

  • Levine's Time Perception - clock time v.s. event time (how that relates to Wiener's Newtonian v.s. Bergsonian Time)
  • 3 experiments backed with psychological theory


  • experiment 1: basic choreology analysis
    • which analysed rhythm, spacial orientation and notation systems
    • with the psychological base of dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
    • and artistic base of: Merce Cunningham; Rudolf Laban; and Rudolf Benesh


  • experiment 2: Jive mix up
    • aimed to see how much the fluidity of a dance was disturbed when the order of the choreography was changed
    • with the psychological base of dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
    • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow


  • experiment 3: Learning a new dance style
    • noting the experience / challange of learning Swing basics during a private class without any prep
    • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow



The performance piece was based on experiment 2, yet I allowed the audience to be in control. My dancing partner and I danced whatever the audience instructed us to by pressing buttons on a website available on their phone. Once a button with a graphical interpretation of a move was pressed, a command would be spoken from the speakers.

relation to a larger context

  • Robert Wiener’s view on Newtonian and Bergsonian time
  • Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on Flow
  • dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
  • Nelson Goodman's approach to Theory of Symbols (autographic vs. allographic, Theory of notation, Score, sketch, and script)
  • Alan Kay's Doing with Images Makes Symbols
  • Brenda Laurel's Computers as Theatre


references
Beauchamp, P. (2006). Chorégraphie; ou, l’art de décrire la danse. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/topic/dance-notation [Accessed 17 Feb. 2017].

Griesbeck, C. (1996). Introduction to Labanotation. [online] User.uni-frankfurt.de. Available at: http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~griesbec/LABANE.HTML [Accessed 27 Feb. 2017].

Benesh, R. (2006). Dance notation system devised in the 1950s by Rudolf and Joan Benesh. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Benesh [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Cunningham, M. (2005). Suite For Five (1956). [image] Available at: https://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/cunningham [Accessed 2 Mar. 2017].

Dancing 4 Beginners, (2008). Basic Salsa Steps. [image] Available at: http://www.dancing4beginners.com/salsa-steps.htm [Accessed 15 Feb. 2017].

Goodman, N. (1976). Languages of Art: An Approach to a Theory of Symbols. 2nd ed. Hackett Publishing Comp.

Gross, R. (2012). Tempo Recommendations for Dance Music. [online] Hollywood Ballroom Dance Center. Available at: http://www.hollywoodballroomdc.com/recommended-tempos-for-dance-music/ [Accessed 24 Feb. 2017].

Laban, R. (1998). Schrifttanz (1928). [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Laban [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Leblanc, S. (2011). Learning the Different Beats of Ballroom Dances. [Blog] Sheri Leblanc Musings. Available at: http://sheris-musings.tumblr.com/post/9776289357/beats [Accessed 23 Feb. 2017].

Levine, R. (1998). A geography of time. 1st ed. New York: Basic Books.

Slater, L. (2005). Opening Skinner's Box. 1st ed. London: Bloomsbury, pp.205 - 223.

Ted Talk, (2009). Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness. [video] Available at: http://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_on_flow?language=en [Accessed 3 Mar. 2017].

Wiener, N. (1965). Cybernetics: or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine. 2nd ed. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Pr.

SESSION TWO: 5 OCT

what do you want to make?

(what / how?)
I'd like to create a large-scale digital interactive installation which playfully points out the tension between documentation and experience, to show that we are unable to completely capture an experience. The focus will be on dance, yet this does not necessarily mean that the audience are the ones dancing. They can also be in control of the performance (think Sims). The activities will be based on experiments conducted for my thesis. These experiments are based on psychological theory regarding topics such as: memory; flow; spacial awareness; notation; and unspoken-communication in dance. (The experiments are the methodology / correlation between thesis and graduation project. There is no strict rule whether I take a theory and create an experiment out of it, or create an experiment and find appropriate theory to back it up. One experiment leads to another as topics are related).
The content of this participatory installation will fall into either one of the two categories:

  1. showing all (aiming for 6) conducted experiments
  2. showing one of the conducted experiment in depth


The installation itself will compose of (touch) screens, beamers, speakers, (kinect, IR sensor, motion sensors, VR, binaural recordings) to create a sense of mixed reality.
Interaction within the piece is crucial to emphasise the interaction of sharing an experience. The interaction can be in either one of the following:

  • between computer and audience
  • audience and performer
  • audience members themselves

(why?)

Project proposal visuals.jpg

keywords for graduation project

  • participatory
  • playful
  • thought provoking
  • eye-opening (not serious, political..)
  • experience
  • research / experiments shown in experience
  • transpose / translate
  • mixed reality



how do you plan to make it?

what is your timetable?

  • 22-10-17 // Plan out experiments
  • 05-11-17 // Conduct experiments on participants
  • 24-11-17 // Graduation Proposal Deadline
  • Make corrections to any mistakes found in experiment explanations
  • Test experiments again if needed
  • 21-12-17 // Finish conducting all experiments


  • Plan how to visualise outcome of experiments (graphics)
  • Decide whether will choose all, some or just one experiment to exhibit in installation
  • Make concrete sketches of prototype of installation
  • Make concrete list of materials needed for installation
  • Start looking for materials for installation
  • Test visual (graphics) outcome of experiments on participants
  • Fix anything that may have not been clear from visuals
  • Finish visualising outcome of experiments


  • 08-03-18 // Make prototype of installation
  • 09-04-18 // Start building installation
  • 25-06-18 // Finish building installation



why do you want to make it?

  • Looking from a dance perspective, I'd like to find to what extent is it possible to capture the moment / the experience while social dancing
  • Looking at a broader sense, are we getting closer to capturing experiences? What tools will help us do that? Will we ever manage? What may happen once we achieve that? Will that be a simulation?


Dance is a non-verbal language passed down from person to person. If it isn’t recorded, it will be lost. Swing almost died out, until it was reintroduced by Frankie Manning and Norma Miller in the 1990s. Choreology, graphical or written dance notation, is a method for conservation, yet there are many versions. They range from overly simplistic footstep maps which only communicate footwork, to Lebanotation which represents many aspects such as direction, body part movement, duration and dynamics of the movement, yet is difficult to read and requires time to learn do decode the language. Conserving dance with the use of video is fine if it’s for watching purposes only, yet once it is used for teaching or recreation, it becomes too fast and/or time consuming to constantly rewind small sections.

who can help you and how?

who how
Becky Tomas, Luciën de Bruin & Zoë Robaey teachers from Swing in Rhythm (Lindy Hop) dance school could share some insight into their methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Leila Bergen teacher from van der Meuelen Wesselling (Ballroom & Latin) dance school could share some insight into her methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Martin Wedby & Anita Kankimäki have been taught swing by Frankie Manning and Norma Miller, could possibly tell me what their experience was, what Frankie and Norma told them was important
Filip Kostanecki dancer at Swing in Rhythm dance school that annotates and analyses the structure of dance classes
Karsten Steehouwer psychologist and dancer at Swing in Rhythm dance school that may have an insight in dance from a psychological perspective
students / participants at Swing in Rhythm dance school listen to their experience with dance, learning how to dance, memory techniques and what tools they may be missing to make it easier
students / participants at van der Meuelen Wesselling dance school what are they happy with? what are they missing? what techniques or tools do they use to memorise and practise? what would make learning easier?
Het Danspaleis organisation which organises swing dance events at elderly homes and hospitals for the elderly / patients to feel young again may share insight in their aim, why they do it, how do they know its successful
dr Mol & dr Donselaar neurologists at Maasstad Hospital
Esther van der Heiden assistant / nurse at Maasstad Hospital who, among other things, organises events for patients, has a wide network that might help me. She organised Dance for Health workshop in 2016 for patients with MS, which will help with research regarding dance with muscle and memory difficulties (http://danceforhealth.nl)
therapists find out about dance as a therapeutical technique - for trauma?
Bavo Europoort psychiatry specialists who conduct memory tests


relation to previous practice

Previous works, both written and physical, focused on Time Perception in Dance. The written piece looked at the paradox of time perception and its relation to time.

written piece: Time Perception in Dance
research into perception of time

  • with the theoretical base of: Robert Levine’s clock time and event time; and Robert Wiener’s view on Newtonian and Bergsonian time


experiment 1: basic choreology analysis

  • which analysed rhythm, spacial orientation and notation systems
  • with the psychological base of dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
  • and artistic base of: Merce Cunningham; Rudolf Laban; and Rudolf Benesh


experiment 2: Jive mix up

  • aimed to see how much the fluidity of a dance was disturbed when the order of the choreography was changed
  • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow


experiment 3: Learning a new dance style

  • noting the experience / challange of learning Swing basics during a private class without any prep
  • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow



The performance piece was based on experiment 2, yet I allowed the audience to be in control. My dancing partner and I danced whatever the audience instructed us to by pressing buttons on a website available on their phone. Once a button with a graphical interpretation of a move was pressed, a command would be spoken from the speakers.

relation to a larger context

  • Robert Wiener’s view on Newtonian and Bergsonian time
  • Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on Flow
  • dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
  • Nelson Goodman's approach to Theory of Symbols (autographic vs. allographic, Theory of notation, Score, sketch, and script)
  • Alan Kay's Doing with Images Makes Symbols
  • Brenda Laurel's Computers as Theatre


references
Beauchamp, P. (2006). Chorégraphie; ou, l’art de décrire la danse. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/topic/dance-notation [Accessed 17 Feb. 2017].

Griesbeck, C. (1996). Introduction to Labanotation. [online] User.uni-frankfurt.de. Available at: http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~griesbec/LABANE.HTML [Accessed 27 Feb. 2017].

Benesh, R. (2006). Dance notation system devised in the 1950s by Rudolf and Joan Benesh. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Benesh [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Cunningham, M. (2005). Suite For Five (1956). [image] Available at: https://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/cunningham [Accessed 2 Mar. 2017].

Dancing 4 Beginners, (2008). Basic Salsa Steps. [image] Available at: http://www.dancing4beginners.com/salsa-steps.htm [Accessed 15 Feb. 2017].

Goodman, N. (1976). Languages of Art: An Approach to a Theory of Symbols. 2nd ed. Hackett Publishing Comp.

Gross, R. (2012). Tempo Recommendations for Dance Music. [online] Hollywood Ballroom Dance Center. Available at: http://www.hollywoodballroomdc.com/recommended-tempos-for-dance-music/ [Accessed 24 Feb. 2017].

Laban, R. (1998). Schrifttanz (1928). [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Laban [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Leblanc, S. (2011). Learning the Different Beats of Ballroom Dances. [Blog] Sheri Leblanc Musings. Available at: http://sheris-musings.tumblr.com/post/9776289357/beats [Accessed 23 Feb. 2017].

Levine, R. (1998). A geography of time. 1st ed. New York: Basic Books.

Slater, L. (2005). Opening Skinner's Box. 1st ed. London: Bloomsbury, pp.205 - 223.

Ted Talk, (2009). Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness. [video] Available at: http://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_on_flow?language=en [Accessed 3 Mar. 2017].

Wiener, N. (1965). Cybernetics: or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine. 2nd ed. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Pr.

SESSION ONE: 20 SEPT

what do you want to make?

  • transcribe dance into graphics
  • decoding dance Irma: How?
  • visualising dance in a different way (infographics), with a psychological look at time perception
  • help find a way to understand the language / style / atmosphere / structure
  • create interactive piece that shows my theoretical findings paired with a series of experiments Irma: describe the kind of interaction? Is it digital?

Irma: Try to describe How/What/Why


how do you plan to make it?
I would like to investigate the struggle of experience v.s. imposed system by looking at the paradox of capturing dance that could only be experienced. This will be done by a series of experiments backed up with psychological theory about time, flow and memory.

Irma: Could you give an example of your first experiment?



what is your timetable?
26th September

  • look through previous written text: what needs expansion?
  • (chapter 1 about time perception, clocks / systems / power / paradox)



why do you want to make it?
Dance is a non-verbal language passed down from person to person. If it isn’t recorded, it will be lost. Swing almost died out, until it was reintroduced by Frankie Manning and Norma Miller in the 1990s. Choreology, graphical or written dance notation, is a method for conservation, yet there are many versions. They range from overly simplistic footstep maps which only communicate footwork, to Lebanotation which represents many aspects such as direction, body part movement, duration and dynamics of the movement, yet is difficult to read and requires time to learn do decode the language. Conserving dance with the use of video is fine if it’s for watching purposes only, yet once it is used for teaching or recreation, it becomes too fast and/or time consuming to constantly rewind small sections.

I’d like to understand what tools / methods / techniques could help dancers to help learn and remember.

Irma: How would you discover this? Are you going to interview them?




who can help you and how?

who how
Becky Tomas, Luciën de Bruin & Zoë Robaey teachers from Swing in Rhythm (Lindy Hop) dance school could share some insight into their methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Leila Bergen teacher from van der Meuelen Wesselling (Ballroom & Latin) dance school could share some insight into her methods of teaching and opinions about communicating ‘dance language’
Karsten Steehouwer psychologist and dancer at Swing in Rhythm dance school that may have an insight in dance from a psychological perspective
students / participants at Swing in Rhythm dance school listen to their experience with dance, learning how to dance, memory techniques and what tools they may be missing to make it easier
students / participants at van der Meuelen Wesselling dance school what are they happy with? what are they missing? what techniques or tools do they use to memorise and practise? what would make learning easier?
Het Danspaleis organisation which organises swing dance events at elderly homes and hospitals for the elderly / patients to feel young again may share insight in their aim, why they do it, how do they know its successful
dr Mol & dr Donselaar neurologists at Maasstad Hospital
Esther van der Heiden assistant / nurse at Maasstad Hospital who, among other things, organises events for patients, has a wide network that might help me. She organised Dance for Health workshop in 2016 for patients with MS, which will help with research regarding dance with muscle and memory difficulties (http://danceforhealth.nl)
therapists find out about dance as a therapeutical technique - for trauma?
Bavo Europoort psychiatry specialists who conduct memory tests


relation to previous practice
Previous works, both written and physical, focused on Time Perception in Dance. The written piece looked at the paradox of time perception and its relation to time.

written piece: Time Perception in Dance
research into perception of time

  • with the theoretical base of: Robert Levine’s clock time and event time; and Robert Wiener’s view on Newtonian and Bergsonian time


experiment 1: basic choreology analysis

  • which analysed rhythm, spacial orientation and notation systems
  • with the psychological base of dr. Brenda Milner’s procedural memory
  • and artistic base of: Merce Cunningham; Rudolf Laban; and Rudolf Benesh


experiment 2: Jive mix up

  • aimed to see how much the fluidity of a dance was disturbed when the order of the choreography was changed
  • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow


experiment 3: Learning a new dance style

  • noting the experience / challange of learning Swing basics during a private class without any prep
  • with the theoretical base of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s take on flow



The performance piece was based on experiment 2, yet I allowed the audience to be in control. My dancing partner and I danced whatever the audience instructed us to by pressing buttons on a website available on their phone. Once a button with a graphical interpretation of a move was pressed, a command would be spoken from the speakers.

relation to a larger context

references
Beauchamp, P. (2006). Chorégraphie; ou, l’art de décrire la danse. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/topic/dance-notation [Accessed 17 Feb. 2017].

Griesbeck, C. (1996). Introduction to Labanotation. [online] User.uni-frankfurt.de. Available at: http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~griesbec/LABANE.HTML [Accessed 27 Feb. 2017].

Benesh, R. (2006). Dance notation system devised in the 1950s by Rudolf and Joan Benesh. [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Benesh [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Cunningham, M. (2005). Suite For Five (1956). [image] Available at: https://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/cunningham [Accessed 2 Mar. 2017].

Dancing 4 Beginners, (2008). Basic Salsa Steps. [image] Available at: http://www.dancing4beginners.com/salsa-steps.htm [Accessed 15 Feb. 2017].

Gross, R. (2012). Tempo Recommendations for Dance Music. [online] Hollywood Ballroom Dance Center. Available at: http://www.hollywoodballroomdc.com/recommended-tempos-for-dance-music/ [Accessed 24 Feb. 2017].

Laban, R. (1998). Schrifttanz (1928). [image] Available at: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rudolf-Laban [Accessed 20 Feb. 2017].

Leblanc, S. (2011). Learning the Different Beats of Ballroom Dances. [Blog] Sheri Leblanc Musings. Available at: http://sheris-musings.tumblr.com/post/9776289357/beats [Accessed 23 Feb. 2017].

Levine, R. (1998). A geography of time. 1st ed. New York: Basic Books.

Slater, L. (2005). Opening Skinner's Box. 1st ed. London: Bloomsbury, pp.205 - 223.

Ted Talk, (2009). Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness. [video] Available at: http://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_on_flow?language=en [Accessed 3 Mar. 2017].

Wiener, N. (1965). Cybernetics: or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine. 2nd ed. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Pr.

Irma:Maybe interesting links to look at : www.cinedans.nl and Filmmaker Ruben van Leer https://vimeo.com/30792174