User:Themsen/RWRM4-1
Solange: Again, I'm just gonna pretend that I don't know you and know nothing about your work. Just a
little.
Solange: And I wanna ask you if you can mak a short general description about what your work is about
Benjamin: Yeah it's been, eh, it's-it's been uh it's been difficult -eh- I think to define what I do -eh-,
personally as well
Benjamin: -eh- but I would- I would say that it's tied to my first -uh- introduction to -uh- societies of
control, for example - post script on societies of control...-uh- and it started out as -uh- ... I was
interested in it because it first tied to -uhmm- actually Lefebvres theory of social space -eeuuh- about
how Lefebvre kind of, like, put up a structure of how we conduct ourselves in space; socially, and also
how space becomes what it is according to how we interpret it socially, like, together. We converse. -
uh- So that was, kind of like, the first kinda queue to -uh- like societies of control. And that our space is
controlled by these three social spaces. -uh- that's kind of like what I got from postscript on societies of
control and on Lefebvre's social space -that he created structure and in this kind of like same (tenant?)
-uh- Ledeuze said that we're defining -we're defining our society according to kind of this paradigm of
control- of controlling the space -of making it more livable in a sense by extending the control...-uuh-
So- that would -that would be interesting -I didn't -uh- because I think in Images. I w- I was hard pressed
to, like, find a visual metaphor for it -and -uh- I was- that's kind of like where I got the idea to -uh- the
metaphor, the visual metaphor for a mushroom.-uh- because -eh- specifically mycellium. -uh- Because
what it does is it's like the extensions of (enclosures) spaces -uh- it kind of extends space as -uh- It has
a certain -kind of like- it- it- it keeps -keeps its organism inside itself or it keeps its life inside it's cell
walls- but it grows out nonetheless. -ah- and it's highly -this mycelium -mycellic pattern is highly complex
as well so you have this kind of -like- -uh- you have this kind of analogy between -uh- spaces of control,
or extension of spaces -of control. And all of- and these kind of cell-walls, or these mycelium,-uh- kind
of, coercing -connecting with each other according to how -uh- how it survives -so that's also about
where I was interested in -eh- this societies of control because these structures -I believe- are a sign of
survival. We want to- we have the ability to expand like a web of mycelium and therefore -uh- in order to
survive this kind of like expansion we need to connect to each other.
Solange: Kay, let's go back (HAHAHA) UUUHMM- so societies of control, that's kind of your base-
your theory base-
Benjamin: Yes.
Solange: that you really are inspired by- UMMM- what is a social space for you, then?
Benjamin: UH- well social space I'd say is a -uh- you can say... is a kind of preee- pre-uh- what do you
call it -uh- ancestor to -uh- to Deleuze's postscripts on spaces of control -uh- what he did was- was he
-uh- what Lefebvre did was he had a -he had a pretty positive approach to it- he wanted to kind of make
us aware of it -uh- in order for us to be able to -uuuh- to -to -uuh- -uh- to control our space- that's what
situationists did as well. They were trying to make injections into space in order to- for us to better
control it instead of the spectacle controlling it. -uuuhm- and so what- what did -what it did here is- I think
that our understanding of social space has- has kind of like -it's been part of our culture since the 1950's
and what it has done is that this theory -has g-has gone into -uh- societies of control where we are
aware of the spaces- we are aware what they do but we're still inside this structure.
Solange: In a system.
Benjamin: Yeah- exactly. In a system.
Solange: Yeah.
Benjamin: -uh- so it's the basis- the social space is a basis on uh- Deleuze's postscripts on societies of
control.
Steve: Can you ask "What is the work?"
Solange: We're gon- We're gonna get there (laugh)
Steve: What is the work.
Solange: Now, actually -ok we know your inspiration -I think- and your basis- where you're coming
from. -uh- And even where your concept comes from -and normally you work alot with images and
drawings -aah- now you're gonna do something else with mushrooms. How do- how did you change
that- how did you come at the mushrooms actually.
Benjamin: -uh- I basically started from my style, my drawing style -for example- because it has a very
organic -uh- approach to it. It- it- kind of fits well into -kind of like- describing these visual metaphores -
uh- of an expanding mycellic society of electronic networks. -uh- So myk- mycellic networks being
electronic networks which i'm trying to make an analogy between-
Benjamin: uh- sorry what was the question? I'm sorry. (chuckle)
Solange: No, uh- how do- how did you came up with mushrooms? Because you're-
Benjamin: Oh yeah.
Solange: Because you went from drawings and images to something very organic- that's something
physical- uhmm how did you want to develop this.
Benjamin: Well- it was -it was first taken from my childhood where -uh- we had this kind of like bonding
over mushrooms -uh- my mother and I were picking mushrooms and w- she was teaching me- so we
were kind of connecting over mushrooms. And then when I looked into mycellic networks I was
interested in that these mycellic networks also connect with each other, individually. Things- so going
back to my drawing style. (chuckle) Solange: (chuckle) Yeah.
Benjamin: What I do with my drawing style is I make random shapes -like- connect them- so uhmm- I
w- I was- interested- that was kind of -like- my approach- that's kind of like where I got the idea- my
drawing style is kind of like -uh- mycellic networks- it goes from -or network -it goes from individual
nodes and then I expand upon it-
Solange: Mhm.
Benjamin: -and they're made into a shape. Solange: Okey, I see the relation. UHMM- (laugh) Well when we talk about -uh- society of control is
actually something organic- not really controlling, so how do you see that. Because a mushroom is not-
you can't control'em- they are just -I mean your drawings are really -you really can control your drawings
-it's not really random I think. You really have to place your pencil or your brush and with the mushroom
it's -it's hard because i- n- it's just so organic and it's nature -do you have control on that?
Benjamin: That's a really long question.
Solange: (laugh)
Benjamin: Uuuh- but -eh just seeing - I kind of -like- see it as an overview of society, I'm not talking
about-uh-
Solange: So the mushrooms are the society more.
Benjamin: Mushrooms are the society, exactly. And, though, what we are talking about for example with
our species expanding beyond sustainable ecology is the same thing a, for example, uh- these huge- ok
you have in Scotland you have- you have uh- a mycellic mushroom which is expanding across
twenty.thousand acres- it's one organism; and it's -it's killing all of the nature in ordr to -kind of like-
make way for its own biome -uh-
Solange: They're surviving.
Benjamin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Solange: Like it says, we're surviving actually in the society.
Solange: Where- where does the controlling part comes in.
Benjamin: Well- the controlling part is more about the containing of the organism- so it- it's about
containing the process of its development. And it's also about this kind- kind of like containment of our
society which is growing kinda beyond its -uh beyond its kinda like- breaching the walls of what we were
originally trying to do. And -what control does -what control society -why the control society has
manifested is between -because we need to kind of like keep together ...-uh- otherwise we will just -uh-
die -die out. So it's kind of like this -this main th- main mentality of society that's also a- also what I saw
with Bruno Latour as well. Nah I don't remember (chuckle)- sorry. Yeah.
Solange: (chuckle) Okey, well that's more clear now - what you mean and the connection with the text
and theory which you made with the work -UHM- so you really want to work with the mushrooms? Do
already have a kind of image in your head how it looks -looks like? Or- I mean how do you want to
present it? Uh- how do you want to present it to an audience? How do you gonna do that?
Benjamin: Yeah. I don't really- I don't really have a set kind of image of -that's what I'm struggling with
right now. With- with trying tooo -uuh- find a form for -for example using distributed networks for
example. I could for example use distributed networks. -UH- network computing for kind of like doing
the metaphor for one central computer needs something from all these computers in order to work. -
euh- so that's kind of like -uh- about -going back to -now we're going back to electronic networks and
of course (uningtelligible)(10:55) -eh- as well.