View source for Mat - JSTOR Notes

The Dirty Boys 
Author(s): John Waters and Mike Kelley
Source: Grand Street, No. 57, Dirt (Summer, 1996), pp. 8-22

A conversation between Mike Kelley and John Waters were they discuss to great length their mutual relationship to what is ‘dirty’.

- Image; A diptych movie still taken from John Waters film Manson Copies divine’s hairdo (1993)

- It’s Ash Wednesday; the question arises surrounding Catholicism and whether sex is better due to being one. They then start discussing ‘Pica’ (the compulsion to eat dirt)

- From Pica to laundry starch. JW referencing an article he’s read about men who have Pica (Page 10 – “the bizarre forms…and the substances consumed are only limited by the imagination.”). JW begins listing possible everyday consumer items one could be compelled to eat. They then begin to describe their own childhood eating compulsions (JW –string from towels/MK – shirt collars)

- Chewing hair - trichobezoars and the surgery required. Men putting things up their urethras.  Hellfire club an S&M venue in New York - a vivid description of a man licking the floor. (Pg 11 – “Thank god, I don’t have that deviation. Life’s hard enough.”) Bringing dirt into pop culture – Pigpen from the cartoon ‘Peanuts’.

- Image; Top half of page - John Waters in 1971 holding a film camera. They discuss the surrealists and why Dali was kicked out (painting of guy in shitty underpants) The surrealist text ‘Investigating Sex’ – surrealists are prudes. 

- JW poses; what city is the dirtiest – L.A., NY or Baltimore? Readings of the word dirty, the difference between dirty and funky as adjectives. The kinds of bars they enjoy going to. (Pg 13 - ‘ Atlantis’ in Baltimore – the first place you would get a job after getting out of jail) 

- Discussing levels of dirtiness. Do you wash your hair everyday? Clean your own house? Where is the dirt found within the family?

- Dirt within language – favourite dirty words.  Bringing it into the art world (Pg 15 “Don’t you think the dirtiest word of all in the art world, worse than felching, worse than snowballing, worse than any of them, is decorative”?) They begin to discuss dirt within cyberspace – Sex/chat rooms.

- Image; Full page – Mike Kelley in costume, tin foil boots, face mask, pointy hat weird dress (1973) 

- They meditate on how one can behave dirty online which brings them onto dirt in cinema. JW lists films with the word ‘dirt’ in their titles before they discuss dirty genres (horror, noir, pre-porno, biker) 

- They discuss specific sexploitation titles of the time – when and where they would be able to see them. Image; bottom half of page –MK piece ‘Untitled (4)’ (1994)

- Now they focus on porn and whether it may or my not of ruined the ‘dirty film’. Discussion surrounds their individually preferred pornographic image – the freeze frame (pictorial) or the moving image. 

- MK’s first encounter with porn – some porno playing cards stolen off a friend’s dad. They kept them in their clubhouse. A really nice description of the clubhouse interior follows (Pg 20 – bottles and jars with coloured water in - trippy); they then ask each other what is their dirtiest memory.

- MK’s – friend falling into a septic tank. JW’s – A buzzard hit by a car (Pg 21 – “you could feel its wings flapping with mange and dirt.” – “I guess it was like a horror movie”)

- MK retracts his dirtiest memory and replaces it with a new one. (Pg 22 – “my dirtiest memory is more like a guilt projection…”/”All the good parts of your life were edited out and only the nasty dirty bits had been saved and cut together…”) Maybe it should be a film?

Of interest; 

-	Where they cross-examine each other’s dirtiest memory.  
-	What is the moment in someone’s life that resounds and embodies – how this influences what he or she does from now on?

Does this moment turn them into something else – a ‘misfit’ maybe? Can and when does this ‘mis-fitting’ become a productive force?